MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

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Dayknyc
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MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by Dayknyc »

I am brand-new to this forum. I am primarily a mechanic/restorer of full-scale Jaguars and Ferraris. In addition, I have always enjoyed building scale model kits: Tamiya, Pocher and now MFH. I spent two years building an MFH 1/12 Ferrari 250 GTO simply because I wanted a good model of that beautiful car. Through minimal skill but a great deal of meticulous care and perseverance, it actually came out very well.

I am now starting the MFH 1/12 Ferrari 312/1967. I realize I have nothing close to the model building expertise of many on this forum, but I'm anxious to learn.

Question number one: rivets. What type should I use? Do I paint the body, then drill the body and then separately paint and insert the rivets? Do I drill the body before I paint it?

With the 250 GTO I used Tamiya lacquer, which I then polished. Polishing rivets after they have been applied could certainly create a problem. What do you experts recommend? I have seen 2K clearcoat recommended to both set rivets and create a nice gloss finish. Is this the way to go? What 2K clearcoat is recommended?

Question number two: drilling very small holes in very small spaces. This MFH model requires the drilling of .6 mm holes accurately in the middle of a 1.2 mm piece of white metal. I have a Dremel drill press and have certainly learned to work with magnifying glasses, but how do you experts drill such holes so accurately?

While I don't aspire to the expertise of many of you on this forum, if I am going to continue to do these MFH models, I would certainly like to learn as much as possible and "up my game." Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by 43rdMichael »

Firstly welcome!

While in no way claiming to be an expert, i’ve drilled enough 0.Xmm holes to last a lifetime.

A good investment would be a pin vice as you can pretty quickly drill with fingers - especially into resin.

Given you already have the dremel, the flexible extension has a pen sized attachment and can really speed up a big job.

Paint sequence is more personal preference. Most seem to fit rivets first, then paint. It does create challenges with polishing, but with some care it can look great. Really depends on the look you prefer in term of level of gloss / clear.

I’ve not used 2K (as i think it looks too thick for 1/43), but there are many here who get great results.

Hope that helps, and look forward to seeing your progress.
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by sky1911 »

Welcome to the fold!

If you feel like it, you can post some of the restorations you are working on or have been - if possible. Oh and I'd like to see that 250 GTO (first series, I hope) as well :)

Other than that regarding the rivets. What I like to do is try and guesstimate the size of the rivet heads on the original car and calculate their scale size and then try to get something matching. As for what type of rivets - I believe I have an assortment of metal rivets from various sources. However, depending on the car in question this can be a really expensive thing to do with small packs of 20-25 rivets going for a fiver. Thinking of a 330 P4 with several hundred rivets this can turn into a costly adventure. To keep the costs down, some people use various sized solder balls (small, soft metal balls that can be shaped, flattened..).
Depending on what kind of rivets you are planning on using you may need to drill different sized holes - solder balls would only need a small depression so the balls can be attached. The diameter can be larger than that of the stem of a regular (scale) blind rivet. And that in turn might be easier to drill as you don't have to go deep either.

On painting the rivets I think it is a matter of preference. The easiest way is probably to just prime and paint the body (and polish the body) and the rivets individually and then attach the rivets once all paint is dried. However, doing that you may end up with a slight difference in sheen between polished body and not polished rivets. Maybe do a quick once over at the end.
My personal preference would be to stick on rivets and paint everything in one go (masking where applicable) and maybe just give the body a light polish trying to not remove the rivets or colour from them in the process. After all I don't think (racing) cars "back then" were done in a concourse style paint job.

On the drilling of the rivets. I would apply some masking tape to the body part mark out the rivet lines via pencil guidelines and maybe even mark out individual rivets on those lines. Preferably the marking would be done on a flat surface prior to attaching the tape to the panel. And finally drill the holes as per the template.
The model plane crowd uses "pinwheels" to get the dents in the surface where the rivets go. Think of a tyre/wheel with a single row of spikes along its thread attached to a fork (as on a bicycle).

On the paints.. there are very knowledgeable people here. As for the 312 F1 - look around here for Pascal's (pgarat) thread(s). I would like to try and follow his lead on the paints (primer, base coats, ...) as I think the result is perfect :)
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by Paul_OFarrell »

Greetings Day,

Welcome to the F1M Forum. There is a wealth of F1 and automotive modelling info to be sourced from our worldwide community.

To address your questions, let's begin with drilling techniques. MFH are known to use two separate approaches to rivet detail. While smaller parts may have a small stump cast in to represent an individual bolt head or rivet detail, larger panels sometimes contain rivet detail as a series of indentations or divots. You can use these rows of small divots as a guide for where rivet holes need to be drilled. In cases where no such rows of divots appear, I would recommend the use of a drilling guide.

Hasegawa produces what they call a "Riveting Guide" - this tool is intended for use on scale model airplanes, however this tool is equally useful in our particular modelling arena. The Hasegawa rivet guide set comprises of a series of photo-etched metal strips, each with a series of "V" shaped notches long one edge, indicating where each hole is required. Each of the 4 gauges are graded with gaps between each "V" spaced at 1mm, 1.5mm, 2mm and 2.5mm respectively. Perhaps you might imagine an upside-down hair comb, where the valley between each comb tooth represents the notch.

The following URL indicates an image of the rivet guide to help explain:

https://www.amazon.com/Hasegawa-Rivet-G ... B001HM54Z6

I have had great success with the use of these rivet guides. In my experience, scribing a faint line into the surface to be drilled works perfectly well when the rivet gauge is carefully aligned so that the scribed line appears at the base of each "V" in the gauge. Taping the gauge to the surface will also help keep the gauge properly aligned.

Of course, there are many differing videos on YouTube indicating all manner of different methods and tools for marking out rivet holes. Having tried most of the available methods, I have found my preferences by way of experimenting on scrap sheet styrene first. There is no substitute for experience and you'll soon learn which tools and techniques work best for you.

As you mention you are drilling into a narrow surface, I would suggest securing the piece onto a surface that can be made to hold the item in question. A suitable piece of wood for instance can have a slot carved into it to hold the kit piece securely in place while you drill it. The piece can be PVA glued into position, then removed after drilling tasks have been completed. Depending on the item to be drilled, you could consider substituting the kit piece with a strip of Evergreen sheet styrene and practice on that until you get your technique sorted out.

As Michael has already suggested earlier, the use of a pin vise is invaluable when drilling small diameter holes. However, when you are met with the prospect of drilling hundreds of holes, you could employ the use of a rotary tool. I would however err on the side of caution with the use of rotary tools, as the friction generated by a rotating drill bit can generate enough friction to melt the drilled surface (Yep, I learned that lesson the hard way). If your rotary tool has a speed adjustment down to a few hundred rpm then set it as low as possible, and ensure you test it first on scrap material before launching into the model parts. While drilling white-metal parts with a rotary tool is usually ok, styrene and resin can be quite prone to heat damage so approach the latter items with due caution. If in doubt, use a pin vise instead and work slowly and patiently... Be prepared to break a few drill bits along the way too, so arm yourself with a good stash of the appropriate sized drill bits.

As far as rivets are concerned, there is a whole new can of worms in that question alone. There are a few options available. Resin cast rivets from Masterclub are my rivet of choice as each piece is individually cast with a small shank attached to the base, allowing the shank to be CA glued into the pre-drilled hole. Another option for rivets is to use solder beads. In my experience there is good and bad news with the use of solder beads: Good news is that no hole needs to be drilled, and the beads can be pressed into position into the divots mentioned earlier by the use of a small wooden dowel ( of course, the holes need to be right size - not too big that the rivet disappears into the hole, and not too small that the rivet will not "sit" into the hole ). The Bad news is that the solder beads can work loose over time and can be a real pain in the arse to work around during the painting process - much as you have already indicated in your post. For that reason alone, I always drill the intended surface first, paint it, then apply the pre-painted resin rivets individually with the aforementioned patience and due care.

MFH kits do not always have their rivets cast in the right size either. Their rivets are generally cast in white-metal and sometimes the castings can be quite rough. Some of my kits contain white-metal rivets which would look more like ice-hockey pucks in 1:1 scale. Therefore, do study your references and find the right sized rivet / solder bead beforehand.

I trust that the above info will help guide you. Please feel free to ask questions if you need further information. We are by and large a like-minded community and here to help each other. Should you prefer to PM me privately instead, you are quite welcome to do so.

Cheers, Paul
Sydney, Oz.

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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by Dayknyc »

Many thanks for your helpful and generous replies! I know I have a lot to learn and I will have more questions. Attached are a few photos of my MFH 1/12 Ferrari 250 GTO and the Trumpeter 1/12 GT 40. I have few tools (e.g. one old pin vise) and am willing to invest in more. What suppliers do you recommend for tools and supplies?
Attachments
IMG_1199.jpg
IMG_1196.jpg
IMG_1183.jpg
IMG_3074.JPG
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IMG_3072.JPG
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by fastbackfreddie »

Hi Day,
Welcome aboard!
I think you are selling yourself a bit short with your GT40 and 250 - they are very nice builds.
There was a recent discussion about pin vises which might be of help to you viewtopic.php?p=349510#p349510
As for other tools, there are many suppliers and manufacturers. I have found Tamiya tools are always quite good, along with most Japanese tools (of which the are many manufacturers). It all depends on what you are looking for. Tools, jigs, templates - they can all be found somewhere. A quick look at Hobby Link Japan for example, will highlight what's on offer.
Likewise, dont be afraid to look local either. Engineering supply shops are a good source of tools and measuring equipment.
It hasn't gone a long way to answering your questions, but I am sure other members will offer their advice and experience.
Hope you continue to enjoy the hobby and interest that we all share.
Cheers
Tim
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by gp-models »

I would go for solder balls as you don´t need to drill all these holes and you can choose a scale matching size as the casted MFH stuff is allways too big.
Just to keep you motivated, Pascal build this car and i`ll put in this link which might be helpfull to you. ;)
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=29748
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Dayknyc
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by Dayknyc »

Thanks again for the replies! I'm still considering rivet options. I have ordered some from Masterclub what I believe would be the correct size (.6 MM head). But I may still go with solder balls. I have perused Pascal's build. He is clearly a master and you have given me some guidance to help me to understand some of the techniques used by you experts. I have previously used guesswork and patience. The MFH 250GTO individual wire spoke wheels were almost too much for me (I took a year's hiatus on that one.).
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Re: MFH Ferrari 312/67 1/12

Post by Indy1977TX »

There are some brilliant builds of this car on this forum. They would be a good place to learn.

Looking forward to your build, I love this car!

Jorda
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