Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
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Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
I'm currently struggling with the quality of the available desktop 3D printers. I'm hoping someone can tell of better experiences than what I have been having. I currently own a Anycubic Photon S model and a Anycubic Mono-X model. I was hoping to be able to print some parts out both for my own use and for potential sales in the future. The trouble I'm having is that parts don't fit together as designed. Let me back up and say that I know that the parts I have designed fit together as designed. I have fitment tolerances designed into the parts and I have had these parts printed on a professional grade printer and everything fit together fine. I did have to make some very small adjustments in two areas by sanding but for the most part everything fit perfectly. Now I've taken these same files and printed them out on my Anycubic printers and nothing fits. So my question is for those who have purchased 3D printed models from Christian or others, how are your parts fitting together?? And then a question for Christian, are you doing anything special to ensure that your parts fit together as intended or is the Saturn printer that much better than the Anycubic printer?? Same questions for Steinietrabi. I have attached some pictures of my current on going very long term project that has lead me to these questions. These prints have been done on a 3D Systems model Pro X 800. As stated above all of these parts fit together with very minor sanding in just a couple of areas. Any suggestions or help is appreciated.
Last edited by Icon_Modeler on Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
And just for giggles, here is the machine these parts were printed on.
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Just finishing up Christians 917/10 and the parts fit together well.
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Nice machines Derek.
But right now I only make the holes for the mounting pins a bit bigger than at the first parts I printed. Maybe 0,3-0,4 mm bigger. Depending on the size of the parts.
On the otherside I learned to print every part step by step to check the fitment of it. How the wheels fit into the rims or should I print it 0,1mm smaller.
But the measurements from cad files compared to the printed parts are nearly 99% the same. The bigger the parts the bigger the difference. But that is OK for my parts.
The biggest problem I got so far is the warping after curing the parts. I cured the first body parts of the 917 one day after the washing. The parts looked good but all are warped in different angles. I can't glue the together with massive gaps.
Now I use the stable chassis parts as a template. I cure the chassis parts and use some tape to stick the body parts onto it and cure it together. That helped a lot to get better fitment in the parts.
What kind of resin are your using?
But right now I only make the holes for the mounting pins a bit bigger than at the first parts I printed. Maybe 0,3-0,4 mm bigger. Depending on the size of the parts.
On the otherside I learned to print every part step by step to check the fitment of it. How the wheels fit into the rims or should I print it 0,1mm smaller.
But the measurements from cad files compared to the printed parts are nearly 99% the same. The bigger the parts the bigger the difference. But that is OK for my parts.
The biggest problem I got so far is the warping after curing the parts. I cured the first body parts of the 917 one day after the washing. The parts looked good but all are warped in different angles. I can't glue the together with massive gaps.
Now I use the stable chassis parts as a template. I cure the chassis parts and use some tape to stick the body parts onto it and cure it together. That helped a lot to get better fitment in the parts.
What kind of resin are your using?
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Ah, this is an interesting topic!
I am thinking of buying exactly one of those machines.
Icon, can I ask you; are the parts you are printing consistently bad fitting?
By what I mean, if you print the same part a few times, are the problems in the same areas?
I am thinking of buying exactly one of those machines.
Icon, can I ask you; are the parts you are printing consistently bad fitting?
By what I mean, if you print the same part a few times, are the problems in the same areas?
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Derek, I think it would help of you describe the areas giving you the most grief and of course what type of grief. Fitting issues can be several things - one or both parts being warped ever so slightly or different shrinkage rates between two parts. For instance take a one piece chassis and some body panels that should fit to it. If the chassis is warped or slightly shrunk all the other parts won't fit, same if the the cabin section of the body panels is warped / shrunk with the rest staying the same. Same same but different.
So please, a little more detail. And, as Christian has said, what type of resin are you using and was it the same when using the pro machine? Also what was the curing setup in either instance, same or different?
So please, a little more detail. And, as Christian has said, what type of resin are you using and was it the same when using the pro machine? Also what was the curing setup in either instance, same or different?
Cheers,
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Interesting question, had similar problems too with some things i printed, so i did some changes in building up the parts on the baseplate and what do you think? 3 times the same part in different directions and 3 different results with more or less fitment.
So with a different print direction you can solve some problems maybe, but also create new problems. When changing the datas, i would not change the print direction of the part, otherwise you can`t find out what effect it has in your final result.
You can also achieve a better result by adding some more supports by hand in your slicing software, also their seems to be a difference in using Chitubox or Lychee at the final result, actually i`m using chitubox but i had a talk with Thomas and he told me that he had trouble by printing a part with Chitubox, but the same part worked out in Lychee.
Many variations ways to find the best quality in printing, especially when parts have to fit together. I printed a wall section for a friend which was simply square, attached it without supports to the baseplate to have nothing to clean up, so far the thoughts. I turned out curved on top and the side, bottom flat as it was printed directly to the buildplate. I never expected this to happen, solved the problem finaly by building it in a 45 degree angle, but instead of printing 10 at one time, i only could do 3 caused by losing space for the 45 angle.
Also ensure that you made the right settings for the resin your using, maybe extending the curing time for one layer can also have an effect, it`s not all up to the printer i think.
Sometimes it`s just try and error and a learning curve.
So with a different print direction you can solve some problems maybe, but also create new problems. When changing the datas, i would not change the print direction of the part, otherwise you can`t find out what effect it has in your final result.
You can also achieve a better result by adding some more supports by hand in your slicing software, also their seems to be a difference in using Chitubox or Lychee at the final result, actually i`m using chitubox but i had a talk with Thomas and he told me that he had trouble by printing a part with Chitubox, but the same part worked out in Lychee.
Many variations ways to find the best quality in printing, especially when parts have to fit together. I printed a wall section for a friend which was simply square, attached it without supports to the baseplate to have nothing to clean up, so far the thoughts. I turned out curved on top and the side, bottom flat as it was printed directly to the buildplate. I never expected this to happen, solved the problem finaly by building it in a 45 degree angle, but instead of printing 10 at one time, i only could do 3 caused by losing space for the 45 angle.
Also ensure that you made the right settings for the resin your using, maybe extending the curing time for one layer can also have an effect, it`s not all up to the printer i think.
Sometimes it`s just try and error and a learning curve.
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
I can only associate myself with. Basically, Christian said everything. Simply printing will not work, you always need a test and a few adjustment loops.capri-schorsch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:15 am Nice machines Derek.
But right now I only make the holes for the mounting pins a bit bigger than at the first parts I printed. Maybe 0,3-0,4 mm bigger. Depending on the size of the parts.
On the otherside I learned to print every part step by step to check the fitment of it. How the wheels fit into the rims or should I print it 0,1mm smaller.
But the measurements from cad files compared to the printed parts are nearly 99% the same. The bigger the parts the bigger the difference. But that is OK for my parts.
The biggest problem I got so far is the warping after curing the parts. I cured the first body parts of the 917 one day after the washing. The parts looked good but all are warped in different angles. I can't glue the together with massive gaps.
Now I use the stable chassis parts as a template. I cure the chassis parts and use some tape to stick the body parts onto it and cure it together. That helped a lot to get better fitment in the parts.
What kind of resin are your using?
Plus, people will notice it on my sets too. Not all parts will fit the same 1: 1. But there is also a reason - the front suspensions in particular have to be sanded so that they go into the openings backlash-free.
What was mainly a reason for the lack of accuracy of fit was simply warping. Here until I also took care that it is best to let the parts cure together further after the first curing. That's why I always put the chassis on the floor and e.g. the rear wing in the floor openings.
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
I do not have a printer yet but have this in my Youtube playlist for future reference.
https://youtu.be/-rEUyR9yoBI
Jordan
https://youtu.be/-rEUyR9yoBI
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Re: Quality of Desk Top 3D printers
Yes warping is always a concern and I think you have found a great solution.capri-schorsch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:15 am Nice machines Derek.
But right now I only make the holes for the mounting pins a bit bigger than at the first parts I printed. Maybe 0,3-0,4 mm bigger. Depending on the size of the parts.
On the otherside I learned to print every part step by step to check the fitment of it. How the wheels fit into the rims or should I print it 0,1mm smaller.
But the measurements from cad files compared to the printed parts are nearly 99% the same. The bigger the parts the bigger the difference. But that is OK for my parts.
The biggest problem I got so far is the warping after curing the parts. I cured the first body parts of the 917 one day after the washing. The parts looked good but all are warped in different angles. I can't glue the together with massive gaps.
Now I use the stable chassis parts as a template. I cure the chassis parts and use some tape to stick the body parts onto it and cure it together. That helped a lot to get better fitment in the parts.
What kind of resin are your using?
I'm using Anycubic brand resin, the grey, basic resin, UV 405nm.
My biggest concern is that it seems as though these printers print oversize and not by just a small margin.
MoFo has said this in previous posts that these "Desktop" printers print oversized but I guess I never really understood how much until now.
As an example I have a bolt and a bolt hole in the model that the bolt must go through. the bolts fits perfect and with no issue on the Pro X 800 printed parts.
However the bolt is no where close to fitting on the Anycubic parts and the CAD file was made .010in or .25mm oversized.
The second concern I have is things that need to be flat not coming out flat.
I'm not talking about warping I'm talking about the printer not printing those parts flat, similar to what gp-models describes in his post above.
Well here is the thing. In a perfect world if we print a flat part we would expect a flat part to come out of the machine no matter how you oriantate it, or maybe that's just me expecting too much.
This is not always the case. We as users are expected to (through trial and error) teach ourselves how best to print our parts.
That doesn't really work for me. I used over half a liter bottle of resin over the weekend to print two very large paper weights.
Both prints suffered from support issues but even if they had come out with no support problems after checking the holes that bolts needed to go through there is another problem of these printers printing oversized.
This is now a second issue we as users (through trial and error) have to teach ourselves how to overcome.
I am fortunate in that I am able to do all my own CAD work so it is not hard work but it is more work to go back through 100 or so parts and make the clearances bigger so that the parts fit when printed.
I feel for someone like Christian who does not do his own CAD work and yet still manages to make his parts fit. There must be an huge amount of work on his part to overcome these issues.
Bolt in hole type of fitment issues. Tab in slot, things like that, that fit fine on parts printed on a commercial type printer but then don't fit at all when printed on a desktop printersky1911 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:55 am Derek, I think it would help of you describe the areas giving you the most grief and of course what type of grief. Fitting issues can be several things - one or both parts being warped ever so slightly or different shrinkage rates between two parts. For instance take a one piece chassis and some body panels that should fit to it. If the chassis is warped or slightly shrunk all the other parts won't fit, same if the the cabin section of the body panels is warped / shrunk with the rest staying the same. Same same but different.
So please, a little more detail. And, as Christian has said, what type of resin are you using and was it the same when using the pro machine? Also what was the curing setup in either instance, same or different?
Yes, I've had the same troubles thinking "flat surface" put it down on the buildplate but then other problems come up because of it. The other thing that I find troublesome is flat areas of the part that have the highest concentration of build supports don't come out flat because of resin build up between supports getting cured a product of the area not draining good enough between exposuresgp-models wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:39 am Interesting question, had similar problems too with some things i printed, so i did some changes in building up the parts on the baseplate and what do you think? 3 times the same part in different directions and 3 different results with more or less fitment.
So with a different print direction you can solve some problems maybe, but also create new problems. When changing the datas, i would not change the print direction of the part, otherwise you can`t find out what effect it has in your final result.
You can also achieve a better result by adding some more supports by hand in your slicing software, also their seems to be a difference in using Chitubox or Lychee at the final result, actually i`m using chitubox but i had a talk with Thomas and he told me that he had trouble by printing a part with Chitubox, but the same part worked out in Lychee.
Many variations ways to find the best quality in printing, especially when parts have to fit together. I printed a wall section for a friend which was simply square, attached it without supports to the baseplate to have nothing to clean up, so far the thoughts. I turned out curved on top and the side, bottom flat as it was printed directly to the buildplate. I never expected this to happen, solved the problem finaly by building it in a 45 degree angle, but instead of printing 10 at one time, i only could do 3 caused by losing space for the 45 angle.
Also ensure that you made the right settings for the resin your using, maybe extending the curing time for one layer can also have an effect, it`s not all up to the printer i think.
Sometimes it`s just try and error and a learning curve.
Thank you Thomas for your comments!!steinietrabi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:07 am
I can only associate myself with. Basically, Christian said everything. Simply printing will not work, you always need a test and a few adjustment loops.
Plus, people will notice it on my sets too. Not all parts will fit the same 1: 1. But there is also a reason - the front suspensions in particular have to be sanded so that they go into the openings backlash-free.
What was mainly a reason for the lack of accuracy of fit was simply warping. Here until I also took care that it is best to let the parts cure together further after the first curing. That's why I always put the chassis on the floor and e.g. the rear wing in the floor openings.
Thank you for sharing, I will have to check this out and see if it helpsIndy1977TX wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:29 pm I do not have a printer yet but have this in my Youtube playlist for future reference.
https://youtu.be/-rEUyR9yoBI
Jordan
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