Lotus 49 - images of the chassis / monocoque needed

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sky1911
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Lotus 49 - images of the chassis / monocoque needed

Post by sky1911 »

Hi guys,

I hope there's someone around here who can help me out. I'm currently trying to build a simracing cockpit.
Or rather, I'm in the "planning-and-getting-stuff-sorted-out-before-starting-to-actually-build" - phase. Now
my goal is to create a Lotus 49 cockpit. Since the best references I have are off a late(ish) 49, I'll be using
that as a base. Attached is a pic of the actual cockpit of one such car with numbers added to the bits and
pieces (très convenient). I've got the measurements in a 3D-file, that I need to turn into 3D plans of spars
and sheets for the construction of the actual cockpit (and seat).
Over the last two days I've been looking for parts to use. Surprisingly a lot of stuff is still available, if you
know what you're looking for and what the part is called. So far so good. I've found the tachometer in a
shop in India and am waiting for feedback from them whether they can source the other gauges, too. If
not that is going to be ultra expensive. That dualie gauge (even with slightly different values) starts from
around 90 bucks up to 200 plus change, which I don't want to put down. Used and not working would be
fine as I'm going to drive the needles with stepper motors controlled via a Raspberry Pi or Arduino (if that
means jack all to you, never mind - small programmable computers controlled via USB).

Anyway... of the numbers in the pic, I got numbers 11, 2, 3, 6, (4, 5), 7, (8, 9) covered. (#) is I've found
a part (not 100% matching) but am not willing to plonk out as much as I've been asked for... again, I just
need the face, glace, needle and the housing, the rest can be broken, doesn't matter.

So with this brilliant boring long winded intro.. what I'm looking for is the name of the part numbered "1".
I was under the impression it is either called a "cut off" switch (fuel pump as per the legend), a kill switch
or a flip/toggle switch for the fire extinguisher system. Honestly, I have no idea how to search for it.
Google image searching using the above brought up more hits than I care about, but none for the part,
and in particular none to a shop where I could get one (replica would do).

Switches #2 (starter, Lucas SPB-106), #11 (battery master, Lucas SSB-106) and #7 (toggle switch, Lucas
SPB-200) as well as the warning light #6 (warning light red, SPB-354) are from Lucas, so I would hazard
a guess that kill switch is also from Lucas - but I can't find it. A part # or an actual name would be
appreciated.

Oh and while we're at it. What's the dashboard covered in? I've seen some versions look like thin taught
leather glued to the metal while at other times it appeared like some textured paint (cracked and all).
article-2671189-1F2967CB00000578-215_964x636.jpg

/thread title changed to suit current needs.
I'm now looking for pictures / drawings of the Lotus 49 chassis. Not the usual "slot racer" type plans,
actual blueprints preferred.

Thank you
Last edited by sky1911 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Lotus 49 - type of switch

Post by albrecae »

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Re: Lotus 49 - type of switch

Post by sky1911 »

Whoopdedoo Adrian,

thank you for the link. With the description on there I found a few more (for a bit less, too). Heavy duty ignition switches
yields a lot of good results. And I found a few other switches that might come in handy. Now I'm trying to find one where
the cover is made from metal. If none is to be found I will have to get a plastic one and use the top to model my needs.
I'm a bit particular in that.
That aside I've just ordered a Smiths 12.000 rpm 4:1 chronometric tacho with 80 mm diameter - an almost perfect match
for the 49 gauge. Almost because in the reference pic it said "made in england" whereas mine is going to read "made in the
uk" (which is actually false advertising, mine is from India ;)). I've also got the "winged" battery master switch, the 3
toggle switches, the push button (starter) and an assortment of warning lights (red, amber, green). I might need the latter
two for a 917 dashboard (ahem captain ambitious but rubbish reporting for duty).

Funny stuff, for whatever reason almost all of the parts, if I have been able to find them at all, are sold from england/uk.
The dealers down here charge an arm and a leg for parts. Think about half an 1/12 MFH kits price for most gauges..

/edit some typos removed
Last edited by sky1911 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Lotus 49 - type of switch

Post by Indy1977TX »

Very cool project, too bad I am not close enough to take some laps in the finished simulator.

Jordan
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Re: Lotus 49 - type of switch

Post by sky1911 »

Hey Jordan,

well you'd be welcome to have a testrun, but that is some ways off into the future - if work doesn't get in the
way as it usually does ;). I've ordered a Thrustmaster T500RS wheel (with base unit) and a 3 pedal set (to be
mounted either hanging or standing - which was a novelty when it came out) to power it. Plus I've looked into
adding a quick release mechanism to be able to switch and adapt real racing wheels as well. The idea is to
maybe get an old Moto Lita wheel. At the time I starting thinking about it, I was driving a lot of laps in a
simulated Maserati 250f with the wooden wheel (BEAUTIFUL!). But really, I'm more into the 60s and 70s stuff
although that Maser was massive fun - must be my driving, tail out in almost every turn and power sliding /
drifting through the turns - BIG smile on my face.

Anyway, for me it started when I visited a friend who has built himself a racing seat and a wooden frame so
the pedals won't move from the chair and the chair from the desk when you're really into it. I'll see if I can
find a pic of his setup. The next time I was at his place he had an Occulus Rift VR goggles set and I tried it.
While I think the goggles can be improved - more on that later - the immersion is there. I was driving an Audi
S1 quattro up the new (all asphalt :( ) Pikes Peak and kept ducking in the virtual car to avoid hitting parts of
the car on impact. It's difficult to describe, but it kinda feels real even if the graphics of the goggles are not
that awesome, especially if you are plagued by having to wear glasses for driving like me - I ended up driving
without (since I can see fairly well without, one good eye, one not so good) but you still get to see a mesh
like effect, comparable to sitting too close in front of an old CRT monitor or TV where you get to see the
coloured dots making up the screen with the dark lines (the mask really) around it. In my opinion the resolution
of the googles needs to be twice what it is now and the dot pitch needs to be significantly smaller than it is.

Yeah but so I got into thinking.. I want that, but I also want to feel like I sit in a real race car and not like
sitting at my office desk or sitting in the nicely contoured chair in my car. -- My friend has an old seat from
a BMW E30 series (that's the first M3 type / lookalikes) which is good, since he mostly drives Rally (love that,
too, but for me it's Lotus 49, Eagle T1G, ... and the occasional GTs 917, GT40, ...) but for the Formula cars
that won't cut it.
Another friend (Remco from NL) has built himself something similar a few years ago. He went for his favourite
car, a Tyrell P34 (type cockpit)..


That aside, I found out last night, that the Lotus 49 monocoque was made from 16 s.w.g. aluminium alloy sheet,
which translates to 1.626 mm in "real world" values. So that's good to know. Now if anyone has a plan of the
individual parts of that monocoque I would be more than pleased to have them ;)
Photos tell you only so much.
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Lotus 49 - type of switch

Post by gp-models »

have you tried google with surching for Lotus 49 drawings, sketch or blueprint?
Maybe helpfull ;)
Take a stand!
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Re: Lotus 49 - info / drawings of the chassis / monocoque ne

Post by sky1911 »

Yup, all I have found so far are the usual slot car blueprints of the outer shape, that are off anyway and
I'm no interested in them. Added to that there is a set of 3 blueprints for a 1982 Ford DFV available - I
don't need those either. Plus from the Haynes Lotus 49 "owner's manual" I have a few additional prints
of the front suspension (which I don't need either) and somewhere I should have a blueprint from a friend
showing a cross section of the rear suspension of one or two 1967 F1 cars. I believe one is the Lotus 49.

Other than that there are very few photos of a naked 49 chassis and none that I have found that show
how the monocoque is made, i.e. if they have used "sponsoons" as in the GT40 sills since the driver in
a 49 is basically sitting in a small U-shaped section bordered by fuel bags on either side. A cross section
of that part would actually be appreciated. If none is available, I'll just approximate what I see by photos.
Any pics of the naked chassis are also appreciated :)
Cheers,
Roman
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Re: Lotus 49 - images of the chassis / monocoque needed

Post by sky1911 »

Btw, resurrection post of the month.
I've picked up working on the 3D-model of my sim cockpit again. I don't know why, but while working on the inner sidewalls of the cockpit last night, I felt it is time to check the inside width of the cockpit at the bottom (tightest spot). And what I found is that if I keep it in scale as it is, it is about 36.4 cm wide. That's just shy of 14.5 in! Now I don't know about you guys, but I don't go walking around with a "wide load" sign taped to my butt, but that would be a press fit for me. Get in once, never get out again. Add to that that maybe you're wearing clothes (who would have though?) while sitting in that aluminium tub and that maybe a seat would also be nice and not just the riveted sheet metal with the rivets and whatnot leaving permanent impressions on your parts. Bit of padding on the seat would also be nice to not just have a naked fibreglass affair. Standing up, I could probably get by with 35 cm (14 inches), but sitting down? No way. So I'm thinking 40-42cm at the bottom would be better. Now, the next tight area is that of the elbow carve-outs. Ideally I would like some room to move around there. Depending on the distance between wheel and seat, you need more or less wiggle room. Well guess what - inside width between the farthest outward points of those bulges: 47 cm (18.5 in). With that the width of the wheel must have been tiny. The TS500RS default wheel I have is ~30 cm wide, the Ferrari 599 wheel is 28 cm wide I believe. So I'd say I would prefer something more like > 50 cm (~20 in) there.
So then I decided to re-check the width and all that vs. the dimensions of the real car (F/R track, wheelbase, ...) and it seems the model is pretty close to the real car. Damn! However, on measuring the gauges in the dashboard, I found that I may have some 5-9% headroom to scale them up without the whole affair looking wonky. For that I measured the real Smiths gauges I have (80 mm tach, 52 mm oil / water / fuel gauges). Those figures are for the outer diameter of the casing, not the bezel. The chrome bezels are wider than that! Lucky me. Here's the new possible dimensions:

At 105%:
width (seat area): 38.7 cm
width (elbows) 49.3 cm

At 109%
width (seat area): 40.2 cm
width (elbows) 51.2 cm

I'm going to scale it up to 109%. Any larger than that for all of it will have the proportions look wonky. I've seen someone build a '49 sim cockpit and the gauges (if 1/1 size) look tiny on the dash. Plus it's the wrong shape anyway. I want to keep it looking as close to the real thing as possible, using actual gauges, switches, etc.
That's the plan for now. The dashboard will stay in scale. The bottom of the pit may need some tweaks to get maybe a few additional cm of width out of it. I will have to build a 1:1 mockup from cardboard before I am actually going to build this from wood and aluminium, but dang, I thought this was a whole lot easier. And once the actual shape is done, the really fun part start - getting those old analogue gauges to work properly with motors from an E36 tacho unit AND have them work with GPL - and other sims.


Anyway, all that juggling with the cockpit dimensions made me realize or rather ask myself if racing drivers of that period were all midgets or children or what? Gee.
Cheers,
Roman

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Re: Lotus 49 - images of the chassis / monocoque needed

Post by jaykay »

Jim Clark had a small but!
Smaller than us overfed old farts for sure...
Most modern F1 drivers are small. It's a competitive advantage.

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Re: Lotus 49 - images of the chassis / monocoque needed

Post by Hacksaw »

Hello,

I started a thread about the VSRN web site recently, this may be of help to you, here is the link to the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32036&p=346982#p346982
And the specific links to the Lotus 49 are:
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012048 ... 7_p336.jpg
And
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012054 ... 7_p337.jpg

Additionally, these links to the 49B might be useful:
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012130 ... 0_p484.jpg
This one
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012159 ... 0_p485.jpg
And
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012023 ... 0_p486.jpg

Something that might be of use to you was a part of Jim Clark’s biography where he describes Maurice Phillipe showing him the controls of the then new Lotus 49, referring to the switches Phillipe explained that the switches work like a factory they “open up and close down”.

If all else fails try to get a copy of Michael Oliver’s Book on the Lotus 49/B/C from your local library, ISBN Number-10 : 1904788017
Here is a link:
https://www.amazon.com/Lotus-49-Story-L ... 1904788017
If I remember correctly the book has factory drawings of the car inside the cover.

Hacksaw
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