Photographing Models...

Photographic Techniques

keithwwalker
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Re: Photographing Models...

Post by keithwwalker »

plastiksurgeon wrote:QUOTE "I shoot with a m4/3 amera with a 45mm (90mm equivalent) macro lens, and usually use f/8 aperture. It is where the depth of field is greatest and the edge sharpness is greatest (each lens will be different with respect to the aperture/sharpness tradeoff)."

I feel the need to disagree with this statement, ...partially, on the basis of physics in optics. THE SMALLEST APERTURE WILL ALWAYS YIELD THE GREATEST DEPTH OF FIELD. F8 on that camera may very well be the sharpest aperture (midrange on any lens is indeed it's sharpest choice), ...BUT, ...f8 , unless it is the smallest aperture on that particular camera is not the greatest depth of field !![/i]

Best,

Steve Mohlenkamp
Yes Steve, I concede your statement. I did not state it accurately - I usually try to shoot with the sharpest aperature, f/8 on that particular lens is the sharpest & where the DOF is adequate. f/22 is the smallest aperture on this particular lens.

On another angle, has anyone tried shooting shutter manually , with long exposure times? I'm at the limit of my photographic knowledge, but it seems the photos come out 'richer'. Hard to describe, as the only time I use this technique is for my work (shooting inside darkened storage tanks without artificial light - only light from a hatch).
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Re: Photographing Models...

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smb wrote:
PeteJ wrote:
dlphnfn wrote: The lights are florescent "tube" lights covered with tissue paper to diffuse the light. Macro is a must, in my opinion.
So for a "hand me down" camera and $20-$30 I have my booth and camera.
Erick --
Erick- First of all, this is a good shot and great model. If you will bear with me I would like to use it as an example. These comments are definitely not intended to be critical as it is one of the better photos.

This shows very well what you will hear referred to as "depth of field". The center portion of the car is in sharp focus and I assume that was what you wanted to show. You will then notice that that area of sharp focus is limited to that central area. The near tire is out of focus. Starting at the about mid cockpit things get progressively more blurred to the point that the body work on the stand is a fuzzy outline.

The main reason this happens has to do with the aperture opening. The longer the aperture(shutter speed) is open, the larger the depth of field. Some cameras have an photographer controlled shutter speed but many simpler cameras such as phone or tablet cameras do not. If you do have one you can adjust, then the longer the opening the greater the depth of field. The coincidental problem with this is the longer the shutter is open the steadier the camera needs to be.

The other method of dealing with this is to back off and use the telephoto option. As you back up and zoom in, the percentage of the lens you are using becomes smaller and the focus gets better. This is often a good choice for larger areas. Macro focus is good for very small parts, but even if you camera can focus in close, the closer you get the more the object distorts. Straight lines no longer look straight and things look out of proportion.

Erick, again, I am not picking on your picture, just trying to explain some basics of photography. Thank you for letting me use it as an example.
Just have to point out that shutter speed has absolutely nothing to do with depth of field, which is solely controlled by aperture for any one lens. The only relationship between shutter speed and aperture is that for a given desired exposure (amount of total light hitting the sensor/film) then as the aperture gets smaller, the shutter speed must get slower. So getting a good depth of field usually means using slower shutter speeds when shooting under artificial light.
Technically you are correct but the available light, shutter speed and aperture are all interconnected. Many digital cameras automatically set the optimum aperture based on the selected shutter speed and available light and only display what shutter speed you are using. In this case you set the camera up for the slowest shutter speed. This will give you the smallest aperture for the available light and thus the maximum depth of field. It was always easiest for me to remember it this way. Large aperture F stops(numbers) = smaller opening is counterintuitive to me and I will invariably get it mixed up. :shock:

When I started photography I had a Minolta XG-M and remember working with it. It had a feature that I wish the newer cameras offered. It was a preview mode. There was a manual button that closed the aperture to what ever you had set and you could actually see the depth of field you were getting. Metering it to get the correct shutter speed was then the challenge. I remember if I had an important shot, shooting plus and minus one stop to be sure I got a good shot. It was a waste of film, but you were sure you got the photo.

I am sure we are boring the heck out of the "average Joe" here who just want's to do a point and shoot, but if we reach a few who try to understand, maybe we can get a few less out of focus photos.
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Re: Photographing Models...

Post by BMW »

On another angle, has anyone tried shooting shutter manually , with long exposure times? I'm at the limit of my photographic knowledge, but it seems the photos come out 'richer'. Hard to describe, as the only time I use this technique is for my work (shooting inside darkened storage tanks without artificial light - only light from a hatch).
That is because of the noise, you want the shutter to stay open as long as possible (which is dependant on the aperture) as you can to reduce it.

There are a lot of great ideas flowing here, especially the small photo booth with cupboard lights! I think I will try to build one.
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Re: Photographing Models...

Post by BMW »

PeteJ wrote: Technically you are correct but the available light, shutter speed and aperture are all interconnected. Many digital cameras automatically set the optimum aperture based on the selected shutter speed and available light and only display what shutter speed you are using. In this case you set the camera up for the slowest shutter speed. This will give you the smallest aperture for the available light and thus the maximum depth of field. It was always easiest for me to remember it this way. Large aperture F stops(numbers) = smaller opening is counterintuitive to me and I will invariably get it mixed up. :shock:

When I started photography I had a Minolta XG-M and remember working with it. It had a feature that I wish the newer cameras offered. It was a preview mode. There was a manual button that closed the aperture to what ever you had set and you could actually see the depth of field you were getting. Metering it to get the correct shutter speed was then the challenge. I remember if I had an important shot, shooting plus and minus one stop to be sure I got a good shot. It was a waste of film, but you were sure you got the photo.

I am sure we are boring the heck out of the "average Joe" here who just want's to do a point and shoot, but if we reach a few who try to understand, maybe we can get a few less out of focus photos.
Most DSLR cameras have an "M" mode (fro manual) it helps in that, you can set the aperture size to what you want, and set shutter accordingly.
Excellent for model photography! :)
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Re: Photographing Models...

Post by PeteJ »

BMW wrote:
PeteJ wrote: Technically you are correct but the available light, shutter speed and aperture are all interconnected. Many digital cameras automatically set the optimum aperture based on the selected shutter speed and available light and only display what shutter speed you are using. In this case you set the camera up for the slowest shutter speed. This will give you the smallest aperture for the available light and thus the maximum depth of field. It was always easiest for me to remember it this way. Large aperture F stops(numbers) = smaller opening is counterintuitive to me and I will invariably get it mixed up. :shock:

When I started photography I had a Minolta XG-M and remember working with it. It had a feature that I wish the newer cameras offered. It was a preview mode. There was a manual button that closed the aperture to what ever you had set and you could actually see the depth of field you were getting. Metering it to get the correct shutter speed was then the challenge. I remember if I had an important shot, shooting plus and minus one stop to be sure I got a good shot. It was a waste of film, but you were sure you got the photo.

I am sure we are boring the heck out of the "average Joe" here who just want's to do a point and shoot, but if we reach a few who try to understand, maybe we can get a few less out of focus photos.
Most DSLR cameras have an "M" mode (fro manual) it helps in that, you can set the aperture size to what you want, and set shutter accordingly.
Excellent for model photography! :)

This is precisely what I am talking about. Most manual modes will still automatically set either the aperture or the shutter speed in the "manual" mode. Therefore you need to know what each is doing. In this case it doesn't matter if you set an f/8 and the camera gives you a 1/60 second or you set 1/60 of a second and the camera gives you an f/8. You have to know that if you are in manual mode setting the aperture you need a larger number and if you are setting the shutter speed you need a longer time.

There is one other factor that makes using shutter speed in the manual mode a better choice. 1/60 of a second is generally the speed at which the flash will automatically turn on. This is because that is the slowest speed at which a hand held camera will not have serious problems with camera shake blurring the photograph. At speeds slower that 1/60 of a second a tripod is highly recommended to steady the camera. Therefore in setting up a shot, if you use the manual shutter speed mode and you set it for longer than 1/60 of a second be sure you have your tripod. The inverse is that if you are using a hand held camera, set it up at a speed 1/60 of a second or faster and let the camera set the aperture for the light available.

You spoke of manual. I you have a tripod, then either way, slowest shutter speed in shutter priority or largest aperture(highest F stop number) in aperture priority and turn off the flash. This will get you the largest depth of field for the available light.
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