MS10 from MS11???

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JamesB
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MS10 from MS11???

Post by JamesB »

Here I am with one of my stupid transformation questions... Can MS10 be easily done with the MS10?

My impression is that the workshop list would include:
-Replacing the V12 by a DFV (of course!! :lol: )
-removing front wings and replace with two slanted "(" shaped fins
-Re-positioning of rear wing
-Not using the small winglets on the front rocker arms
-Not using the side pod parts and leave the tub as is (I imagine the enlargening parts were fr increased fuel capacity
-Shorter windshield. Said in a rough way, "painting blue the rear half of windshield clear". Obviously I'll try to be a bit less lazy and will replace that area and srely will sand it smooth! :lol: :lol: :wink:
-And last but not least, I'll reduce front tyres width. My calculations told it's like front tread should be 18.2mm instead of 22.5. So I'll be removing 4mm, mor or less the width of one of the "slots".
-I asume wheelbase will stay the same. I'll use a longer spacer between DFV and gearbox.
hat do experts think? :D
Thanks in advance as usual!
BR
J
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Hugeprong
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by Hugeprong »

I would be interested in the answers to this thread. I would love to make the Stewart 1968 car.

If you go for the Dutch GP version, I think you could dispense with the rear wing altogether.

Are the rollover bars the same on both versions - it is hard to be sure from photographs!

I dont like the sound of the work on the front tyres I must say. Sounds rather "easier said than done!"
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by JamesB »

Hugeprong wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:34 am I dont like the sound of the work on the front tyres I must say. Sounds rather "easier said than done!"
Neither do I!!!! :lol: :lol: But you need to try some day! v :wink: If things went bad, I might even opt for making a mould and making narrower tyres in resin. The seam will be easier to fix there, no doubt.
Yes I also have doubts on the roll hoop... and more.

https://i.postimg.cc/tTW63xxJ/tank-compare.jpg

The chassis seems to have a roundish section, also tu seems to go further behind the driver head, as if the "filling" needed to compensate DFV's smaller length had been fitted there. I'll think if I do this or not.
Ah! I think I'll go for the Nurburgring version for obvious historical reasons 8)
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by bestbalsakits »

Hugeprong wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:34 am I dont like the sound of the work on the front tyres I must say. Sounds rather "easier said than done!"
I widened 1/12 Lola T70 tires with one 'slot' few years ago.
I made a plastic insert that would fit inside the tire, making contact with tire inner surface and made sure it was big enough so tire would not rotate/move on insert.
Then mounted all so it could rotate, and used x-acto to cut original set in two, repeated process on spare tire to cut out 1 slot, and then glued the slot between the two halves of the tire.

It was pretty good and almost invisible to see where slot was placed. Just make sure to have a nice straigt cut over the whole length of the threated tire, and make sure your cutting device is perfect 90° to surface. I think i clammed cutting device so it could not move while cutting.

Makes sense?

Wim
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by JamesB »

bestbalsakits wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:05 am It was pretty good and almost invisible to see where slot was placed. Just make sure to have a nice straigt cut over the whole length of the threated tire, and make sure your cutting device is perfect 90° to surface. I think i clammed cutting device so it could not move while cutting.

Makes sense?

Wim
Yes it does, Wim :D nice explanation. Surely the way to go. Even easier in my case as it's about making the tyre narrower. All this, no doubt easier with slicks! :lol:
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by MarcoSaupe »

I'd suggest to print a tire with a 3D printer - I think designing a tire with a not too complex tread pattern is one of the easier tasks in 3D modelling.
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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by JamesB »

THanks Marco, but the idea is "making do with what we've got" ;-) I'll make it as simple as possible and keep the 3D effort for more fruitful stuff :)

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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by Hacksaw »

This link should take you to the various answers to the question of converting a 1/12 scale Tamiya MS11 to a MS10:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27036&p=284882&hili ... ra#p284882

For reasons that are beyond me my reply to that topic appeared three times. :oops:
But and that is a very important “but” since I wrote my reply in 2016 the VSRN website has moved the reason is not known but it may be on its way to being closed down, this link to a slot car forum explains:
https://www.slotforum.com/threads/vsrn- ... ce.154394/

Direct links to the Model Cars magazine article and drawings for the Matra MS10 are now:
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012102 ... N2_p94.jpg
And
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012249 ... N2_p95.jpg
A similar Model Cars article and plans on the MS11 may also be of use to you these are the direct kinks that you need:
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012156 ... 0_p510.jpg
And
http://web.archive.org/web/201012012250 ... 0_p511.jpg

One thing to be aware off is that the difference in the length of the DFV and the V12 was made up by extending the monocoque chassis back from the driver’s shoulders, look at the difference in the roll over bars on the MS10 and the MS11 to see what I mean, the MS11 has a single roll over bar while the MS10 has a pair, the area between the front and the rear roll over bars on the MS10 is how the different engine lengths was accommodated.
Another thing to remember is that the MS10 had a light subframe around the DFV to help support the suspension loads.
May I suggest that you give careful consideration about making the tyres from resin, resin tyres might be too heavy for the light (and thus weak) suspension system.
Still with the tyres this link has a couple of pictures of how I made the front tyres of a Lotus 43 narrower that the doner 49 tyres and the rear tyres of a Porsche 908/3 wider than the doner Tyrrell rear tyres:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9530&hilit=On+The+Bench

To go back to the VSRN articles and plans, this link will take you to the VSRN page that lists the articles and drawings that were published Model Cars magazine:
http://web.archive.org/web/200712081957 ... Plans.html
Click on the links then scroll down to view titles of the article, then click on the page number to open the page. This will keep those interested racing cars before the early 1970’s occupied for hours.

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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by JamesB »

WOOOOOOW!!!!!

Where's the emoji doing the mexican wave when you need it??? :D :D :D
Great, thanks. I didn't remember god ol' Joaquin bringing out the topic 5 years ago... I did not even remember good ol' James answering to it too :lol: :lol: :lol:
THat's really great, and will be of good use. I might convert this thread to WIP to have it all together.
all the info is good and welcome, and it seems hints go all in the same directions.
Hmmm... BAD NEWS for me, though, is that I cannot keep the two lower chassis extensions that, in the Tamiya kit, act as a solid and reliable stressed part of the frame, holding the rear bulkhead on which suspension is anchored. I planned installing gearbox and suspension slidly and then simply slipping the DFV between that and the chassis rearmost new bulkhead.
Also I see now that I already glued the rear bulkhead and I should have waited...
Stay tuned, I'll keep going! :D

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Re: MS10 from MS11???

Post by Hacksaw »

As is the way of things while I was looking for something else I found this 1970 or there about's newspaper cutting of my MS10 conversion from the MS11 kit. Not the greatest picture ever but you will get the idea that the conversion can be done by a relative novice (no one had told me otherwise).
Hacksaw
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Matra MS10 At The Back I Do Finish Them Sometimes Resized Twice.jpg
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