A time to remember.

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Dede
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A time to remember.

Post by Dede »

May 1st 1994, for most here I need say no more.

27 years ago today, we lost possibly the greatest driver to grace a Formula One grid.
To me anyway he was the best, no question.

Dede.
Dede.
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JamesB
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by JamesB »

Yes... we're in that remembrance phase of the year. End of april, early may... just in a week it's Gilles time too. Sad. Great memories enyway.
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by Corpsegrinder »

This is a gloomy time of the year, Ratzenberger, Senna, Gilles and De Angelis all gone in different years but in the same period.
"In my days, the drivers used to go out after a race and chase girls. These days, they thank Vodafone" - Sir Stirling Moss

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Re: A time to remember.

Post by ronnie1972 »

Also Henri Toivonen, and co-driver Sergio Cresto.
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by Joaquin »

Dede wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 7:39 am May 1st 1994, for most here I need say no more.

27 years ago today, we lost possibly the greatest driver to grace a Formula One grid.
To me anyway he was the best, no question.

Dede.
From my point of view, nobody is as good as Fangio. 24 victories in 52 races. 29 PP, only once out of the first two rows. Capable to win championships with 4 different teams. Beating team mates as good as Moss. The other great champions are very far from his numbers
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donnieleblanc
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by donnieleblanc »

I’ll go ahead and potentially open up Pandora‘s Box with this comment. I have thought about this a lot over the last couple of years. I’m just not sure I can ever definitively say who I think is the best driver ever. Could Fangio handle the speed and complexity of a modern F1 car? Would Michael Or Lewis be brave enough to race a 5Os or 60s era car, given rudimentary safety and design? Could they win in a non-dominant car? Would Senna have won more without Prost as a teammate or if he hadn’t tragically passed? Could Hakkinen won more (and Schumacher less) if McLaren had not fallen off in mid-90s? Would Lewis have 7 titles if Nico hadn’t retired or if he wasn’t with Mercedes? What about drivers like Jean Alesi who were incredibly talented but with teams at wrong time and they never recovered. And then there are drivers like Ronnie and later Gilles who tragically passed before reaching full potential. Growing up, I always thought Senna was the best, but that sort of changed when Schumacher won 7 titles. Then I learned more about 1960s and 1970s F1, when cars were really dangerous. Now, I just feel there’s probably too many variables for me to say that I believe this person was clearly the best driver ever. I appreciate how talented and brave they all are, regardless of the era or the number of titles & wins.
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by JamesB »

Yes, so many ways to try and clear up who's GOAT. Nevertheless (and obviously without the slightest wish to restrict free speech and opinions) this thread was more focused on remember those gone, regardless they were really good drivers or a bit less.
Yes Toivonen and Cresto too.
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donnieleblanc
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Re: A time to remember.

Post by donnieleblanc »

A question for the folks who have been watching F1 a bit longer (and a little more in line with the thread)...

I recently saw a video on Ronnie Peterson, who I was previously unfamiliar with, and the question occurred to me, who else could have been an all-time great had tragedy not occurred? I know the 60s and 70s were extremely dangerous, but I never understood how dangerous until recently.

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Re: A time to remember.

Post by stubeck »

It’s super tough to really know. We’ve seen it with drivers like Fisichella who were said to be champs in waiting not be able to deliver when given the right car. It’s also unlikely people will write an article about an up and coming driver by saying “I think he’s going to be the next Ralph Firman”.

Regarding the greatest of all time, it’s impossible to know with how drivers have to drive differently over the years. With the lack of track limits becoming increasingly prevalent since 02, whose to know how drivers in the past would have raced knowing a mistake wouldn’t end their race. We also don’t have car retirements for mechanical issues much anymore. This has meant that even if you have a terrible race, if you’re in the top two teams cars, you’ll likely finish fourth at worst most races.

More recently F1 has also tightened up, only two teams have won the championship since 09. It was tighter in 2010 and 2012, but otherwise we knew at minimum which team would win the championship before the final race since 13. Hamilton is a great driver, and should be on eight world championships (Williams should have been dqed in Brazil 07 for illegally cool fuel) but when your team has won every constructor championship since 14 with races to go, it’s hard to argue ones greatness without also comparing the competitiveness of the field others competed against.

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Re: A time to remember.

Post by ronnie1972 »

It’s almost impossible to compare the greats from different era’s, technology, and circuits have changed so much since the sports’s inception. One can compare the greats of a particular era against their rivals, but to try and compare Lewis Hamilton with Jim Clark?, a completely different sport between 60’s F1 and contemporary F1, comparing apples & oranges. For me Sir JYS has the most impressive stat, 27 wins from 99 starts.
Regarding the great talents who were struck down before their potential was fully realized, GV is the most obvious, his Ferrari teammate Didier Pironi is another canidate. As much as I loved Ronnie, I think he had reached the peak of his career, he had been in the sport for eight years, and the forthcoming ground effect cars would had been difficult for him, he suffered from chronic neck problems after his 1969 Montlhery shunt, and the ground effect cars would have been hard for him to drive.
For me the greatest “what if” in F1 history remains Francois Cevert, many who remember the era (myself included) are convinced he would have won multiple world titles had fate not intervened at Watkins Glen.
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